The Narrow Path 08/25/2026

Steve Gregg: Good afternoon and welcome to The Narrow Path Radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg, and we are live for an hour each weekday afternoon. That's the case today as well. The purpose of a live broadcast is for back-and-forth conversations to take place on the air. You can call in if you have questions about the Bible or the Christian faith that you'd like to discuss on the air. If you have a difference of opinion from that of the host on any subject, which you'd like to discuss on the air, that's what this is for. I've been doing this daily for 29 years. That's we got a long, long time on the air here. And we've been taking, I probably have heard all the questions. Actually, once in a while, once in a while, someone calls in with a question I haven't heard before. It's usually a very strange one when that's the case. But, and of course, lots of the questions are have been asked hundreds of times, but whatever's on your mind, it doesn't matter whether it's been discussed many times before. If you've never heard the answer and you want to know, we'd be glad to talk to you about it. The number to call is 844-484-5737. Once again, that number is 844-484-5737. And as I've been saying, this coming weekend, I'm speaking a little further north than where I live. I live in Southern California. I'll be speaking about what is it, about 400 miles north of here or something like that, in like Fresno, Clovis, Oakhurst, Coarsegold. So those are some towns up there that I'll be speaking at this weekend. If you're in those areas and want to see if I'm speaking in a place or time that's convenient for you, you can look that up on our website. It's thenarrowpath.com. And when you get there, you there's a tab that says "Announcements" and it'll give all the announcements of where I'm speaking. You're certainly welcome to join us at any of the any of the events announced there. Check it out. I'll be up there Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, coming up this week. All right. We're going to go to the phone lines now. We'll talk to John, calling from Long Island, New York. First of all, hi John, welcome to The Narrow Path.
Guest (Male): Oh, thank you, Steve. Yeah. I'm off the off the flying come completely from the laundry mats. I'm sorry, I don't have the scripture in front of me. But it's from Revelation. I know dispensationalists talk about Christ returning, he starts the thousand years. I think this would this scripture put a like a hole in their balloon when they it says, when Christ returns, the let the filthy be filthy still, the holy be holy. So I don't I think it kind of cancels out the idea that people are going to live during a thousand years and a lot of them are going to come to holiness and and and salvation. Is that correct?
Steve Gregg: Well, that's a very peculiar verse. You're talking about Revelation 22:11, which is, you know, as as the book is winding down, uh, this is kind of an announcement that, uh, an apparently an angel is making this announcement to John. It's right after verse 10. In verse 10, he says, he said to me, do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. He who is unjust, let him be unjust still. He who is filthy, let him be filthy still. He who is righteous, let him be righteous still. He who is holy, let him be holy still. It's a very strange statement, obviously, because it suggests that if somebody is unjust, and if they're filthy, they might as well stay that way. And you'd think they would they'd call him to repentance. But I think the impression, I think this is more impressionistic than literal. I think that the angel is saying that the prophecies of this book are going to be fulfilled so soon that John must not seal the book up because the time is at hand. And of course, you may know, but our listeners might not all know, Daniel was told just the opposite about his book. Daniel was told that his book was not going to be fulfilled very soon, and so he's told to seal it up because he was he was going to go to his grave. He he'd lived to be an old man, go to his grave, and in the end, he'd rise from the dead in the end time. So, I mean, so Daniel was told, Daniel asked, you know, what's what's what shall the end of all these things be? He's asking for more information about his own prophecies, and Daniel is told, yeah, just seal that up. That's not for you to know. You know, this is going to be fulfilled a long time from now. You know, put a seal on that scroll, stick it away in in storage, you know, a much later generation will find it relevant. And of course, Peter in 1 Peter chapter 1, verses 10 through 12, actually talks about this very thing, how that the prophets sought more information about their prophecies, and they were told that it was not for them to know, but it was for us, Peter says, for us to know, we who have had the Gospel preached to us. So, the New Testament believers are the ones that those prophecies have to do with, which means that Daniel writing about 600 years before Christ was writing about things that would be fulfilled, you know, something like 600 years after his time. Actually, the, you know, 490 years is really the number that's given. Now, but this that was that was a long enough time after Daniel's time to say, let's seal the book up. It's not going to be sealed. It's not going to be fulfilled soon. It's going to be like 490 years, something like that. So, just put it away for now. It's for a later generation. The interesting thing is John was told the opposite. He's told, don't seal this up. It's not for a later generation. The time is imminent. It's coming. It's at hand. And then he says, you know, if somebody's righteous, let him stay righteous. If he's not, let him stay the way he is. I don't think it's giving permission for people who are wicked or sinful or dirty to stay that way. I think it's basically saying, yeah, this is upon us so quickly that, you know, frankly, you know, people aren't really going to have much chance to change. You know, hopefully they've been doing the right thing up to this point, because that'll that'll continue with them. If they've been doing the wrong thing, that's going to continue with them too. I don't think he's saying let them stay wicked. I think he's saying it kind of just make making it sort of a a pronouncement, this is how it's going to be. Sort of like when God said, let there be light, there was light. So, I mean, let them be wicked. They are wicked. They will be. The idea being the imminence of the fulfillment of these prophecies was so so much upon them that, you know, any any real serious opportunity to change if they hadn't done it earlier, was probably a vain hope.
Guest (Male): Okay. That's for the 90 years. I thought I saw something recently. Can I just go directly to YouTube and put in Steve Gregg discusses the 490 years or something like that? I forgot where I saw it.
Steve Gregg: The 70 weeks. The 70 weeks. Yeah. The 70 weeks are found in Daniel chapter 9, verses 24 through 27. I have topical lectures on that, on that very passage and on the 70 weeks. Also, if they aren't easy to find among the topical lectures, of course, you can go to my verse-by-verse lectures, which through Daniel, in this case, you'd find what I have to say about it there.
Guest (Male): When are you coming out to New York anytime soon, Long Island, New York?
Steve Gregg: You know, it just takes, it just takes an invitation usually. I I don't have one planned. I I am going next year to Upstate New York to speak at a family camp. I think that's up in the Buffalo area. Not going to be until next summer, so it's almost a year from now. But that's that's plenty of time to plan for something if you want to plan something, you know, closer to New York City or Long Island, where you are.
Guest (Male): All right.
Steve Gregg: Thank you so much for everything. Yeah. All right. Thanks for your call. Bye now. All right, our next caller is Don, calling from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Hi Don, thanks for calling, you're on the air.
Guest (Male): Thank you, Steve, so much. Um, I've been reading a book on the origin of the doctrine of immortality of the soul, and the author, um, basically represents the view of conditional immortality, which I would agree about. But then at the end, at the end he takes an interesting twist that I have never heard. He makes a difference between Christians having eternal life as in John 3:16 and Christians having immortality like 1 Corinthians 15. He makes a difference that there are some he references Revelation 20, Revelation 14, you know, the 144,000. And he says that there's a difference that one one, I'll just read one sentence here. He says, understanding the difference between immortality and eternal life influences one's approach to worship. It safeguards believers from misconceptions such as believing all faithful persons automatically receive an inability to die, no matter what they might do in the future. Scriptures emphasize that God does not remove free will. The post-millennium test confirms that rebellious individuals can indeed perish. Moreover, distinguishing between heaven's immortal co-rulers and Earth's billions of faithful worshipers highlights the diversity of God's arrangements while maintaining unity of faith. I've never I've never heard this, and I just wanted to get your comments on it.
Steve Gregg: Yeah, well, I think I think immortality is one consequence of having eternal life, but I think the two terms are not identifying the same thing exactly. Because immortality is seemingly a term that's used for the inability to die, that is physically. We are mortals and we will die. Even Christians who have eternal life will die. But Paul does say in 1 Corinthians 15 that this body, which is going to be buried when we die, is a mortal body, but it it will be raised in immortality. You know, it must put on immortality. The body will. So, when we're raised and glorified in the image of Christ in our new bodies, then we will be those are immortal. And I'm not sure that human immortality is ever spoken of apart from that concept of being in immortal bodies. Now, on the other hand, having eternal life is something we have now. I mean, Jesus said in John 5:24, he that hears my words and believes in him that sent me has everlasting life, or has eternal life, and shall not come into condemnation, but, you know, has passed from death unto life. You know, we we are told in a number of places, especially in John's Gospel, that having come to Christ and being born again, we now have eternal life. Now, you'd think eternal life is exactly the same thing as immortality. And like I said, I I think the two concepts are definitely related, and I think our immortal bodies that we are promised are, you know, an outworking of the fact that we now have this life of the ages, or of the age. The thing about eternal life, or for that matter, the word eternal at all, is that both in the Hebrew, which is olam, and by the way, the term eternal life, or everlasting life, is found only once in the Old Testament. It's found in Daniel chapter 12, I think it's verse 2. The word eternal is olam in Hebrew. In the New Testament, it's it's generally either aion, which is we'd spell it a-i-o-n, or it's aionios, which is the same word made into a preposition. I'm sorry, not a preposition, into an adjective. Aion means age. Aionios has something to do with an age. Now, many people would say it means enduring for an age. So that there are some of the more literal translations have translated aionios as age-enduring. Or, you know, age-enduring life that that that endures either for an age or through the ages. Now, there's also a fair number of evangelical scholars, F.F. Bruce being one of them, who suggest that aionios may not even be talking about how long something lasts. It may be talking about the character of it. It's the life of the age, meaning of the Messianic Age. Jesus was there introducing a the what what the Jews would call the age to come. The Jews often spoke of this age and the age to come. The second of those being the age of the Messiah, of the fulfillment of the Messianic prophecies. Now, Jesus came to fulfill those prophecies and did so, and therefore he brought in the Messianic Age. And there is a particular kind of life pertaining to that age that's different than the life pertaining to previous ages. And and so, you know, aionios, which is translated everlasting or eternal, can mean that which pertains to the age, meaning the Messianic Age in its context. So that aionios punishment, aionios life, you know, aionios joy, and things like that, would be that which pertains to the Messianic Age, and we have that. We have that life. Now, is it everlasting? Well, it certainly could be, but the word aionios does not in itself tell us whether it's everlasting. Because the word aionios does not literally mean everlasting. Both olam, the Hebrew word, and aionios, the Greek word, both refer to something that is hidden or beyond beyond the the the horizon of of sight. We can't see it. We can't see how far away it is. It's something that extends from now forward, or even backward, you know, something can be said to be from the eternal past, or olam. It means something that the past is so far back we can't even tell when it began. Or the aionios future can refer to that which is so far ahead that it goes over the horizon where we can't see it. Now, something that is aionios there could easily be forever. I mean, if if something we can't see the end of it from here, it might be that if we could go beyond the horizon, we'd notice it goes on forever and ever and ever and ever. Or it might be something that doesn't go on forever, it's just goes on beyond the point that we can see from here. That's what the word olam literally means. And it is used many times of things that are truly endless, like God, the the eternal God. And probably of the eternal life of the of God that gives us and so forth. But the word itself doesn't necessarily mean unending. So, to say we have eternal life may or may not convey the the notion of immortality, but it does mean we have the life of the age. Now that age is the last is the age that, uh, that people will someday be resurrected into and, uh, and will live immortally. So, I I don't mean to confuse. It's just that immortal, I think in the Bible, when it's applied to people, uh, which isn't very often, I believe it's always referring to the the immortal immortality of the resurrected bodies. But aionios life we have now. And if aionios means everlasting, then it means that we have it everlasting now. And it could reasonably be understood to mean that, because Jesus said, I am the resurrection and the life, he that believes in me, uh, though he were dead, yet shall he live, and he that lives and believes in me shall never die. Uh, so, it sounds like, you know, aionios life is forever. Um, although the word aionios doesn't have to mean forever in every case. So, that may confuse a lot of people. I don't mean to. I'm just trying to give you the whole the whole bit of information that I think is relevant to your question.
Guest (Male): Yeah, I and that that makes sense.
Guest (Male): Is is I think is he making a difference though, between there's a certain class of Christians in after death that that actually have a substance of immortality where the rest of those believing Christians who have died and are now in the New Heavens and the or the I rather the New Earth, they don't have immortality. Is he it sounds like he's making a difference that there's two classes of Christians in after death, once the resurrection of Christ has happened. That's what's confusing to me.
Steve Gregg: Okay, well, I don't know who this author is or what his beliefs are. And I haven't read the chapter you're referring to. I I have a I have great sympathy for the doctrine of conditional immortality, which you said he's he's advocating. But somebody who believes, somebody who believes in conditional immortality might not believe the same way about everything. For example, there are people, lots of people who believe in conditional immortality believe in soul sleep, and that is they believe that when you die, you're you're you're in the dark. There's nothing, no consciousness until the resurrection. And whereas I don't think that conditional immortality necessarily means that. It could, it could include that. It's not impossible to believe that there is the survival of the souls for some period of time after death, without believing it's immortal. You know, one could, I'm not sure we have to, but one could take the story of Lazarus and the rich man quite literally, where the rich man who is lost is still conscious in Hades, at least for a while. We don't we don't read there that he's immortal there. Uh, you know, he might he might have it might be that people live there for, you know, a little bit and then, you know, are extinguished. But the truth of the matter is, very little is said to us in the Bible about the state of the dead in the intermediate state, or for that matter, even after the judgment. All we know is it's bad. But as far as the doctrine of the immortality of the soul, that doctrine does appear to arise from Greek philosophy and not from the Hebrew scriptures of the Old Testament.
Guest (Male): Right, right.
Steve Gregg: Okay, well, thank you very much. Appreciate it, Steve. Okay, Don, thanks for your for your call. Let's see here. Sam in Atlanta, Georgia. Welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
Guest (Male): Hey, thanks for having me. Steve, I listen to you all the time. I appreciate what you do and what you share. And, um, I'm interested to know or to have your take, your biblical take on the idea of denominationalism. And specifically, I wanted to know, as you understand the Bible and read the scriptures, do you see or understand denominationalism to be, uh, sinful? And if it is sinful, then how do generations like ours and on, how do we rid ourselves of it? Is that possible to do? Um, but I'm really interested to know if if you understand the scriptures like in John 17, when Jesus says it's his that all of us be one, um, if you see that as we're supposed to be absolutely unified, and if we're not, something is is wrong. So I just have always pondered that in light of all the denominations.
Steve Gregg: I hear. Let me address that. Yeah, okay. I do. I first want to make a distinction between denominationalism on the one hand and individuals who attend denominational churches on the other hand. I believe there's good Christians in every denominational church, and I believe that not all of them are sinning by being in a denominational church. But denominationalism is more of a phenomenon that that goes beyond, you know, just the individual. It has to do with dividing the body of Christ into segments, which apparently don't feel they are they can love each other enough to fellowship, you know, on the same basis between themselves and people of other denominations. In other words, the Bible presents the body of Christ as one big family, and there's no, there's no excuse for, you know, uh, distinguishing between one group of Christians and another in terms of favoritism or anything like that, except it be on the occasion of sin. I mean, there is such a thing as church discipline, and when when Christians sin, there is such a thing as, you know, removing them from the fellowship until they repent. But where there's no sin, and let me just say this, most of the things that divide one denomination from another have nothing to do with sin. They have to do with opinions. They have to do with theological constructs, and things like that. And and the Bible does not anywhere say that all Christians must have the same theological construct. And therefore, to divide the body over differences like that, is to sin. Jesus did pray that the church would be one. That doesn't mean they all have to meet in one building. Sometimes the church in a town, like Rome, for example, in Paul's day, had too many people to meet in one building all the time. I mean, there were in Romans 16, there seems to be evidence of at least four congregations meeting in different homes in the church, but it was one church. The town had only one church, and the and the letter went to all of them, you know. It's not like there were four different groups and they were hermetically sealed off from each other, and they and you know, the people in one group didn't belong to the other three. You know, no, the body of Christ, we we all belong to that because the Holy Spirit, when we're converted, places us in the body of Christ. And if any true Christian treats any other true Christian as if they don't belong, uh, in the same body, or in the same fellowship, then uh, then that's sin. That's breaking down something that God has built. Now, Paul, of course, there's one particular place in in Paul's writings where he actually mentions the the origins of denominationalism. He certainly treated it as if it was a sin. I don't think it it became denominationalism, but the mentality that was emerging in Corinth is the very mentality that created denominationalism 1500 years later. And Paul said this in 1 Corinthians 1:10, Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, that there be no divisions among you, that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of the house of Chloe, uh, that there are contentions among you. Now, I say this, that each of you says, I am of Paul, or I am of Apollos, or I am of Cephas, or I am of Christ. Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God, I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. Now, what he's saying is, we all were baptized in the same name, namely the name of Christ. There is only one person who died for us, Christ. Therefore, all Christians are of Christ. He's the one who died for your sins. He's the one who's name was pronounced over you, by by identification in baptism. Not Paul, not Apollos, not Cephas, not Calvin, not Luther, not Wesley. You know, it's it's like these different denominations have have nothing to do with identifying people as Christians. In every denomination, there are some people who are Christians, and in every denomination, there are some people who really aren't because they don't know Christ and don't follow him. All people who love and follow Christ are in one body. They are none of them are of Paul, or of Apollos, or Cephas, or of the Baptist, or the Methodist, or the Presbyterian, or the Episcopalian, or the Roman Catholic churches. All who follow Christ are of Christ. And Paul and Paul was somewhat aghast that Christians would begin to think otherwise. Now, I'm not against people going to a church if it has a name over it, like Baptist or Presbyterian or Methodist, or Lutheran, or whatever. But the thing is, if a person begins to think of themselves as I am of this denomination, what they're saying is, I am more connected with the people of this denomination than I am with the people across town who are in another denomination. And that is a division of the body of Christ that isn't okay. Now, some people say, but but the Christians don't all agree with each other on theology. Well, that's true, and they're certainly not going to get any closer by separating from each other. Iron sharpens iron. If people disagree, they need to stay together. If they love Christ, then they need to work out their differences, and if they can't agree, they need to love each other anyway and still be in fellowship with each other. This is what Paul said in Romans 14:1-7. I need to take a break, but I hope that helps you. You're listening to The Narrow Path Radio broadcast. Our website is thenarrowpath.com. We have another half hour, so we're not done here. Stay tuned, I'll be back in 30 seconds.
Steve Gregg: Welcome back to The Narrow Path Radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg, and we're live for another half hour, taking your calls. Feel free to give me a call if you want. Right now, we have two lines on our switchboard open, which is an opportunity for you to get through before we're done today. We have only a half hour left of the show, so don't delay. If you want to get on those lines, we'll be glad to talk to you if you have questions about the Bible or the Christian faith, or a disagreement with the host. Feel free. I'd love to have you join us. So, we're going to go to the phones now and talk to, uh, let's see, uh, Athmar in San Diego, California. Hi Athmar, welcome.
Guest (Male): Uh, hello, uh, Mr. Steve, uh, uh, I am, uh, going now right now to something which is a little bit difficult. My background is very, uh, simple. I was, um, uh, like you did before with, uh, Pastor Chuck Smith's, uh, went to the, uh, to the same to the Bible College, uh, and moved to Mexico. I'm a missionary in Mexico. Right now, I have to wait because my, uh, my, um, European passport is expired. So I cannot go in there anymore. But what, uh, what's happening right now, uh, is, um, I was always, uh, he was very easy for me to, to reach out to, uh, the non-believer. Uh, David Hawkins, he called me the missionary who didn't speak English a word and, uh, started a revival in, uh, Mexico. And, uh, uh, the problem is is I have, uh, my mom died. Uh, she died, uh, uh, on her birthday and I get a large inheritance from, uh, my mom, two houses in Austria, my home country. And, uh, over here, I get, uh, money which, uh, we work on it now forever because it takes a lot of time to get all these approve, translated and whatever it's necessary.
Steve Gregg: So, that's that's a lot of background. So, tell me what the problem is you're going through. I mean, your mother died. That's I'm sorry for that. And you inherited some money, but the problem, you said you're going through. I'm I'm still not clear on.
Guest (Male): The problem is that, uh, right now, when I'm in my area, when I'm going to reach out for, uh, the homeless, when I, uh, evangelize, uh, it seems that everything goes absolute wrong. The opposite. There is no fire in my bones anymore, which, uh, uh, I already assume that, uh, it's not, uh, going very well. And, uh, uh, it's I have a police dog, which is at this point very sick, and this morning I had, uh, uh, a very bad incidence with her. Uh, I go always, I patrol schools and the homeless, uh, uh, school, the morning school, et cetera.
Steve Gregg: Okay. So, are you just saying there's, are you saying that there's quite a few different things that are going badly in your life? Okay. And you said that,
Guest (Male): What what happened today, what pardon?
Steve Gregg: Yeah.
Guest (Male): What happened today was, uh, so discouraging because I was sitting and feeding my dog and she's very, uh, short on the leash because she's trained to, uh, go after people who have, uh, drugs, but not a little, when they have a lot. And the young gentleman was walking by and I didn't see, uh, see him. And my dog, like a rattlesnake, was instantly jumping over there, and she ripped the the the leash up and the men fell down, uh, on, uh, the sidewalk, was bleeding her his his, uh, he lost his conscience for, uh, about a minute. I believe so.
Steve Gregg: So, are you facing, are you facing legal liability for that, or is it just something that was a traumatic thing for you?
Guest (Male): No, this the thing is, I I told him because I said, listen, I'm so sorry when he came back. The dog is was awesome because it's a service dog. She, uh, laid down with him to to protect him. And I said, sir, whatever, whatever I can do for you, I'm absolutely aware that this is my fault. I want to help you, but he he just, uh, said, no, no, this is okay. It's everything's okay.
Steve Gregg: Okay. So, if you want to summarize, yeah, if you want to summarize your question into 30 seconds. I mean, you've given me a lot of different things. How would you summarize your question in 30 seconds?
Guest (Male): How?
Steve Gregg: Yeah. I mean, could you summarize what you have, what can I do for you? What do you, what would you like me to do for you? Yeah.
Guest (Male): How could I get my what I believe lost it and I don't I don't figure out why. How can I get my old strength back to, uh, reach out without always having my back, uh, uh, blamed the thing it it it doesn't bring anything it it it goes there's no fire in in me.
Steve Gregg: Okay, I understand. So, so you feel like your your faith, your zeal has cooled down and and and you you miss it. And you wonder how to recover it. And I think that I think many, many Christians go through that kind of thing. I think many people in the ministry do. In fact, I believe lots of pastors, after many years of pastoring churches, you know, feel kind of burned out and, and you know, their emotions and their zeal have kind of fizzled and, uh, you know, they're kind of going through a crisis. You've been a missionary in Mexico. It sounds like for some time, and obviously, when you went to the mission field, you had a fire in your bones, as you say, which doesn't seem to be there anymore. Well, there's a number of things I can say. One, because because I don't know you, I mean, you sound very sincere, so I'm going to just give you the benefit of the doubt. I'm I'm going to assume that this hasn't happened to you because of compromise in your life. Uh, I mean, there are probably two two ways it could go. One is if there's compromise in your life, it may explain this. But the other is that there's no compromise in your life, you're doing just the right thing, and it and you're still going through this. Uh, just in the first instance, obviously, I think you'd agree that if if you had begun to make compromises in your life and and had allowed sin to creep in and so forth, and were now having some sinful habits and so forth that you're kind of ignoring and not repenting of, that would certainly, that would certainly vaporize your zeal and your sense of the presence of God. But from what you've told me, I'm I'm assuming that's not true. Now, if it is true, then that may be your answer. But let's say it isn't true. Let's say you've been very faithful the whole time. Well, then in some ways you're about average because the the the the normal Christian life isn't always riding on a, uh, a high, uh, of emotion. Uh, I mean, it's always nice when it is. But zeal for God is most reliably measured by continuing to be faithful, uh, at times when you're getting emotional gratification out of it, and at times when you're not. Because God doesn't change. And if you haven't sinned, then you haven't changed either. I mean, that is you haven't you haven't moved away from God. Nor has God really moved away from you. The way I usually explain it, and I've been through this many times myself, I've been in ministry for 56 years, and I've had, you know, emotional highs and lows, but I've never really never really had my doubts about God. And I've never really had my doubts that I was on good terms with God because, I mean, when I when I don't have the feelings, of course, I do check check my heart, check my life. See if I've see if I've been sinning. See, you know, see if there if I still love the brethren, and so forth, which means I'm laying down my life down for them, not that I feel fuzzy good feelings toward them. You know, I mean, to the it does say in 2 Corinthians chapter 13, you know, examine yourself and see if you're in the faith. And, you know, when you do examine yourself, if you find that you still love the brethren, you still, you know, are devoted to God, uh, you still want to please him, not because not because you feel that you'll get punished if you don't, but because you believe he's, you know, the most important and, uh, best person, you know, to serve in the world and in the universe. I mean, you if your faith is not diminished, then your feelings can come and go. But, uh, you know, I I liken the well, this program is called The Narrow Path. I liken the Christian life to a path. You're walking a path. Now, if you've ever read Pilgrim's Progress, that's kind of where you get that imagery too. And, uh, you know, if you haven't read Pilgrim's Progress, I think it'd help you very much to do so. It's a classic, written what, 400 years ago or so. And, uh, it's it's just a wonderful, uh, analogy, and it's one of the most read books in the world because it's so so excellent. But this young Christian is on a path, you know, walking to the celestial city, and he encounters all kinds of trials, all kinds of doubts, all kinds of despondency, all kinds of encouragement. I mean, it's it's an allegory of the real Christian life. Uh, on the path to glory, there are tests, there are, uh, you know, lessons that we learn, and many of these are through not only trials, but I mean, when we think of trials, we might think this lots of stuff are going wrong in my life, that's trials. But even when you when you can't point to a lot of things going wrong, you you did point to a few, but even when you can't point to a lot of specific things, just the felt the sense that I don't feel like I used to feel. That's a trial too. And I refer to those times as as tunnels. I mean, on the path that we walk with Christ, there are many kinds of experiences, and one of those is tunnels. I think every Christian goes through tunnels. A tunnel is like walking into a cave. It's dark and cold and damp. But it's not a cave because it has an opening at the other end, and you come out the other end if you keep moving. Uh, you know, when you go into a tunnel, those are that's, you know, that'd be a way of talking about periods of time where you're not feeling the presence of God. It's dark, it's cold, emotionally, it just feel like, this isn't, you know, it's not like it used to be. Where's the sunshine? Where's the where's the favor of God? I used to feel. Well, uh, those tunnels have a purpose. God has us go through those for a number of reasons. One, it turns back those people who are just in it for the good vibes. Sometimes people, when they come to Christ, they get so many great emotions that, you know, they continue for that reason alone. And that's what, you know, the devil said to God about Job, you know, you've given such a blessed life. No wonder he stays with you. Give him hardship, and he'll curse you. Well, you know, when God takes away the sense of his presence, then you have to just trust his word. He says, he's with you. And, and, and you keep moving. And you may be moving in the dark for a while. You may be in a tunnel. But the the the secret to surviving the tunnel is to keep moving because there's, you know, there is a there's light at the other end. Now, I've been I've been through tunnels that were weeks long, months long, and I would say, maybe even years long in my life. But I just keep moving. Just keep serving God, and and you comes out, you get better, gets better at the other side. Um, and this is part of the actual path that God is given us to walk. Jesus did it. All the prophets did. Elijah did. Moses did. Paul did too. I mean, they went through their depression times because life isn't always, uh, you know, a party. You know, there's a great verse about this in Isaiah 50. The last verse in Isaiah 50, verse 11. It says, well, actually, verse 10. I I'd say not not 11 so much as 10. It says, who among you fears the Lord? Who obeys the voice of his servant, meaning who obeys Christ? Who walks in darkness and has no light? Let him trust in the name of the Lord and rely upon his God. I mean, this is exactly it. Do you do you serve God? Do you fear the Lord? Are you walking at the moment in darkness, and you don't have any light? Well, just trust God. Keep walking. I think it's Winston Churchill said, when you're going through hell, keep going. You know, because you're not going to be eternally in hell. You might be going through a hell hell, uh, or or maybe it doesn't even feel like hell. It just feels cold and and boring. But these these uh, changes, these uh, changes in spiritual climate, uh, they don't say anything about whether you're still, you know, loving God and serving God. They just say, they just say whether you're enjoying it or not. And, uh, you know, not everything is enjoyable in the Christian life. Think of the people who became martyrs and were tortured. I'm going to think some of them were probably not very happy at sometimes, but they were faithful unto death. And that's what we're called to be. So, I mean, I I'm very sorry to hear of your losses and and the trials and so forth, but on the other hand, I would say, don't feel that your you know, that it's that it's so unusual that somehow you need an explanation, maybe how could a Christian go through this kind of thing? You know, it says in 1 Peter chapter 4, um, uh, somewhere in there. It says, do not do not think it strange when you encounter fiery trials, as those as though some strange thing happened to you. He says, that's verse 12. Uh, 1 Peter 4. It's not a strange thing, uh, for for you to go through trials. And in 1 Peter 5, uh, nine, or verse 8 and 9, it says, be sober, be vigilant because your adversary the devil walks about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brethren in the world, that's through your through the whole world, the brothers are going through the same stuff. Uh, the devil can discourage you if it can if he can make you think that what you're going through is unique to you, and that other Christians don't go through that. And therefore, there's something wrong with you. Maybe you're not a Christian after all. Uh, maybe you're just deceiving yourself before. No, believing I mean, the great Christians that you read about in the Old Testament, or in church history, I should say, and and Old Testament, uh, prophets and so forth, they all went through their ups and downs. Elijah was depressed some of the time. Uh, Jonah was definitely depressed. Moses got depressed. Uh, I think even Jesus got depressed. I don't think he lost faith, but I think he got depressed. I mean, when you're sweating great drops of blood, maybe that's not called depression, but it's certainly is, uh, it's an agony. So I just say, brother, it sounds to me like you're going through a tunnel, and, uh, there's you know, there will be light at the other end if you keep moving and obeying God, just keep trusting the Lord, and, and he'll you know, you'll come out on the other side. Uh, and that is unless, of course, there's some compromise in your life that I don't know about. Maybe you don't even know about it. You you should definitely search your heart and just say, hey, I I mean, don't don't accuse yourself of anything that's not true. But just say, hey, have I have have I neglected some duty God's told me to do? Have I been disobedient somewhere? That would be that would be one explanation, but it's certainly not the only one, and I'm not assuming that to be the correct one in your case. I hope I hope not. But if it is, of course, repentance can bring restoration. I appreciate your call, brother. Thanks for joining us. Uh, we're going to talk to Priscilla in Vancouver, BC. Hi Priscilla, welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling. Okay. Priscilla doesn't seem to be there. We're going to talk to, um, Bruce in La Mirada, California. Bruce, welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
Guest (Male): Hi Steve. Um, a friend of mine was asking me a question last night. He has to fly for trips that he has to go on. And he suffers from high anxiety over flying. So it was suggested to him to maybe, um, get look into hypnosis on lessening that anxiety. But automatically, you know, when you hear hypnosis, your mind goes to, well, is that demonic? And and so I really couldn't answer the question, um, biblically. I mean, I could answer it emotionally from what the way I maybe I felt, but I you know, I held back on answering that because I really didn't have a biblical answer for him.
Steve Gregg: Well, you know, I I could certainly get myself into trouble here with a lot of Christians counselors and so forth, because many of them use hypnosis. But I would say this, uh, there are many things that people sometimes resort to to manage rather common human problems, which are not the solutions the Bible recommends. Now, whether there's demons involved in hypnosis or not, I do not know. I've never been hypnotized. I don't know much about it. I mean, I've certainly seen people who are hypnotized. You hear, I've heard probably what people usually hear about it, but, uh, I would say that, uh, certainly the Bible does not recommend hypnosis. And and yet it does discuss anxiety as something that Christians have to not only go through, but they have to deal with it and and conquer it. And of course, I think the best place to look for that as, uh, in verse 26, uh, of Philippians 4, I mean, verse 6 of Philippians 4. Philippians 4:6 and 7 says, be anxious or care, you know, worried for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Now, it says, don't be anxious for anything. Now, it's it's easy to talk to a, you know, a hungry person and just say, well, and and they're cold and just say, be warmed and filled and do nothing for them. And I've heard Christian psychologists say, well, to just tell an anxious person to be anxious for nothing, that's like telling a hungry person to be filled and satisfied. Well, not exactly, uh, because Paul doesn't just say, be anxious for nothing. He says what to do instead of being anxious. So, in those times when one would be anxious, don't do that. Don't choose to be anxious, but choose to do what he says, which is by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God. Now, again, Christian psychologists say, well, you can't just hand out Bible verses like like vitamin pills or like aspirin, you know, true. And I wouldn't suggest taking this verse or any verse of the Bible like an aspirin. This is telling us truth. This is telling us biblical Christian truth. And, uh, it's not something you take like a pill. It's not just something you put in a little promise box and you read one of the promises every day. This is a this is a, you know, a response to what Christians are supposed to believe. We're supposed to believe that God is concerned about us, that God takes care of us, that not even a sparrow falls to the ground and dies, unless it's God's will. Now, some sparrows do fall down to the ground and die. Of course, they all do eventually. But they only do it when it's God's will. Likewise, no airplane with a Christian in it is going to fall to the ground without it being God's will. So I mean, we know this. If it's true of sparrows, it's certainly true of people. Jesus made that very point. He says, you're worth more than many sparrows. So if God's hanging on to the sparrows like that, he certainly has the same greater concern for you. The thing is, though, Christians also have this other part of our belief, and that is we're all going to die sometime. And the best time to die is not when you're old, or when you're middle-aged, or when you're young. The best time to die is whenever God decides that's your time to die. Um, and if a person doesn't believe that, I'm not sure they have any Christian beliefs at all. I mean, trusting God to do things right. Trusting God to preserve you, to take care of you until it's his time for you, you're to meet your appointment. It's appointed unto man once to die. God knows when that appointment time is. And, uh, you know, I cannot die until unless I rebel against God and do something suicidal. But but if I if I'm obedient to God, nothing can take me out until he's done with me. And if he's done with me, why should I want to stay around? What's the point of living any longer if God's done with you? The whole point is that the Christian attitude isn't just that we take a verse like this like a pill, and it resolves all our problems when everything else in our thinking is wrong. Um, this verse expresses something that's part of the holistic view of the Christian life. We trust God. We commit our concerns to him by prayer. Of course, uh, it says later in Peter, casting all your cares upon him for he cares for you. How do you cast your cares on him? Well, you give them to him. Okay, God, this is a this is a concern of mine. It's a problem of mine. But I belong to you. And therefore my concerns and my problems are yours, not mine. So, I'm going to let you worry about this for me. It says, cast your cares, your worries on him, because he cares. He'll worry for you. Let him worry. You know, uh, you know, what I there was a woman in in England in World War II, who didn't go into the bomb shelters when the Blitz German Blitzkriegs were taking place and bombing London. And people asked her, you know, where were you during the bombing? She said, I was on my porch. And they said, where'd you stay? Here in my house? Oh, how'd you sleep at night? I just slept normally. And they said, well, how could you sleep with all that danger? She said, well, I read in the Bible that he that keeps Israel neither slumbers nor sleeps. I figured there's no sense both of us staying awake. And that's quite good theology. Let him worry about it, not me. I mean, obviously, I have responsibilities. If I if I fulfill my responsibilities, that's all I can do. I trust him for the rest. And so if I have to fly, and if I'm nervous about flying, well, I I mean, frankly, I guess the question is, do I really have to fly? Is there some adjustment I can make in my traveling or in my in my employment that doesn't require me to fly so much. But if I'm doing the right thing, if I'm in God's calling for my life, and I have to fly and it's a nervous thing for me, then I just have to say, okay, God, uh, what's the worst thing that can happen? In flying? I suppose the plane crashes, and I die. Yeah, well, that could happen to me and not with an airplane. That could happen to me just walking across the street this afternoon. I could be hit by a truck and die. People will today. This is going to happen to some people today. It could be me. In other words, my life is in God's hands. But you see, many Christians call themselves Christians, but they don't really believe that. They don't even want it to be in. They still want to run their own lives. They still want to take care of themselves and predict themselves. They want to worry about their own things. Yeah, well, that's that's not going to work out. Jesus said, if anyone would come to me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. When you've done that, you're saying, okay, God, my life is yours, not mine. I've been bought with a price. I'm not my own. So, if I'm yours, then, like I said, my problems are your problems. My safety is your issue. It's your responsibility. I'll do what you say, and I'll rest in you. I'll just leave the rest to you. That's casting all your cares on him, because he cares for you. So, I mean, that's that's the Christian approach to anxiety. I realize many Christians don't have that kind of a faith, don't have that kind of a Christian life. They don't even they might not be really converted. They go to church and they believe certain things. But if they're not trusting God, I'm not sure in what way they're Christians because I think Christian is about faith. It's about trusting God. And, uh, if a person hasn't learned to do that, they might want to learn what it means to be a follower of Christ. And, uh, some people might be angry for my saying that, but if it's true of you, then I'm your best friend for telling you that. I I hope that that will help some people here with anxiety and stuff like that. I've certainly known people who are anxious about flying. Um, I've there's been things I've been anxious about, but I do this very thing. I think, okay, God, I can't avoid this thing. It's kind of nervous for me. I'll just let you worry about it. And the worst thing that could happen, from the human point of view, is I could die. But is that really all that bad? I'm kind of expecting to die someday. In fact, I'm kind of looking forward to it because Paul said he was eager to depart and be with the Lord, which was far better, he said. I also believe that. So, what's to fear? Anyway, I I hope again, I hope your friend may be able to find peace as in the way that Paul said in Philippians and the rest of the scripture. I'm out of time. I'm sorry to say. A lot of people are still waiting. Call tomorrow. I'd love to talk to all of you. Call early. You've been listening to The Narrow Path. We are listener-supported. Our website is thenarrowpath.com. Check it out. Everything's free, but you can donate if you want. Thenarrowpath.com. Let's talk again tomorrow.